M.: How far away are you now from him?
D.: I am away from him. But I want to get closer to him.
M.: If you first know your Self, you may then find out how far away the other is. Who are you now? Are you the personality?
D.: Yes, I am the personality.
M.: Is the personality independent of the Self?
D.: Sometimes.
M.: At what times?
D.: I mean I have some flashes of the reality and, at other times, I do not have them.
M.: Who is aware of those flashes?
D.: I, I mean my personality.
M.: Is this personality aware as being apart from the Self?
D.: Which Self?
M.: Which do you consider the personality to be?
D.: The lower self.
M.: Then I mean to ask if the lower self is aware independently of the Higher Self?
D.: Yes, at times.
M.: Who feels that she is away from the master, just now?
D.: The Higher Self.
M.: Does the Higher Self have a body and say that the master is away from it? Does it speak through your mouth? Are you apart from that?
D.: Can you kindly advise me how I can train myself to be aware of what I do even without the body, as in sleep?
M.: Awareness is your nature. In deep sleep or in waking, it is the same. How can it be gained afresh?
D.: But I do not remember what and how I did in my sleep. M.: Who says “I do not remember”?
D.: I say now.
M.: You were the same then; why do you not say so in sleep? D.: I do not remember what I say in sleep.
M.: You say, “I know, I remember”, in the wakeful state. This same personality says “I did not know - I did not remember in sleep”. Why does not this question arise in sleep?
D.: I do not know what happens in sleep. That is the reason I ask now.
M.: The question affects the sleeping phase and must be raised there. It does not affect the waking phase and there is no apparent reason for this question.
The fact is that you have no limitations in sleep and no question arises. Whereas now you put on limitations, identify yourself with the body and questions of this kind arise.
D.: I understand it, but do not realise it (i.e. unity in variety).
M.: Because you are in variety, you say you understand unity - that you have flashes, etc., remember things, etc.; you consider this variety to be real. On the other hand Unity is the reality, and the variety is false. The variety must go before unity reveals itself - its reality. It is always real. It does not send flashes of its being in this false variety. On the contrary, this variety obstructs the truth.
Then some others pursued the conversation.
M.: Removal of ignorance is the aim of practice, and not acquisition of Realisation. Realisation is ever present, here and now. Were it to be acquired anew, Realisation must be understood to be absent at one time and present at another time. In that case, it is not permanent, and therefore not worth the attempt. But Realisation is permanent and eternal and is here and now.
D.: Grace is necessary for the removal of ignorance.
M.: Certainly. But Grace is all along there. Grace is the Self. It is not something to be acquired. All that is necessary is to know its existence. For example, the sun is brightness only. He does not see darkness. Whereas others speak of darkness fleeing away on the sun approaching. Similarly, ignorance also is a phantom and not real. Because of its unreality, its unreal nature being found, it is said to be removed.
Again, the sun is there and also bright. You are surrounded by sunlight. Still if you would know the sun you must turn your eyes in his direction and look at him. So also Grace is found by practice alone although it is here and now.
D.: By the desire to surrender constantly, increasing Grace is experienced, I hope.
M.: Surrender once for all and be done with the desire. So long as the sense of doership is retained there is the desire; that is also personality. If this goes the Self is found to shine forth pure.
The sense of doership is the bondage and not the actions themselves.
“Be still and know that I am God.” Here stillness is total surrender without a vestige of individuality. Stillness will prevail and there will be no agitation of mind. Agitation of mind is the cause of desire, the sense of doership and personality. If that is stopped there is quiet. There ‘Knowing’ means ‘Being’. It is not the relative knowledge involving the triads, knowledge, subject and object.
D.: Is the thought “I am God” or “I am the Supreme Being” helpful?
M.: “I am that I am.” “I am” is God - not thinking, “I am God”. Realise “I am” and do not think I am. “Know I am God” - it is said, and not “Think I am God.”
Later Sri Bhagavan continued: It is said “I AM that I AM”. That means a person must abide as the ‘I’. He is always the ‘I’ alone. He is nothing else. Yet he asks “Who am I?” A victim of illusion would ask “Who am I?” and not a man fully aware of himself. The wrong identity of the Self with the non-self makes you ask, “Who am I?”
Later still: There are different routes to Tiruvannamalai, but Tiruvannamalai is the same by whichever route it is gained. Similarly the approach to the subject varies according to the personality. Yet the Self is the same. But still, being in Tiruvannamalai, if one asks for the route it is ridiculous. So also, being the Self, if one asks how to realise the Self it looks absurd. You are the Self. Remain as the Self. That is all. The questions arise because of the present wrong identification of the Self with the body. That is ignorance. This must go. On its removal the Self alone is.
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